Tuesday, June 03, 2008

Obama Wins It, Hillary Refuses to Face Reality

Congratulations Mr. Obama. I'm glad I was there for the start of it all here in Springfield. Hillary Clinton, meanwhile, continues to be loathsome.

Go away, Hillary.

19 comments:

rickmonday said...

I dont know why everyone is so hard on Hillary. According to several counts including real clear politics, she actually won the popular vote. Of course she didnt win the delegates but I think she had every right to continue the campaign.

I also find it disengenuos that many of the supers initially claimed that they would follow the will of the people. Now certainly one could argue both ways on the total popular vote count but the fact remains that it was neck and neck. For so many supers to disproportionately jump to Hillary shows how much of the media cool aid they have drunk.

I dont see how Obama can prevail in the general. Clinton overwhelmingly won the swing states that are so important in the general and I think McCain will overtake Obama in many of those. I dont think McCain would have stood a chance vs. Hillary.

I predict, barring Hillary as the VP, that Obama wins huge in the popular vote but McCain wins huge in the electoral college.

nancy said...

Clinton winning "overwhelmingly" in the swing states doesn't speak to a McCain victory over Obama. I just don't understand that logic. What does McCain offer the Clinton voters that Obama doesn't? (except white-itude).

And with all due respect, Mr. Monday, you do sport a bit of a Kool-Aid moustache yourself. It's a fairly accepted belief that most Republicans liked the odds of a McCain/Clinton general.Feigned concern over Clinton's harsh treatment (and ultimate defeat) is a cover for your real concern about your guy's chances in November against President-elect Obama.

rickmonday said...

Nancy,

First, I knew that Hillary would not beat Obama. We only wanted Hillary in the race long enough to continue to make the argument against Obama as the GOP headquarters really hasnt done yet. Let her spend her money attacking Obama instead of republican money.

The tougher match up for the GOP would have been going up against Hillary. This election is all set up for the democrats and with Hillary losing the nomination, the door is cracked open for McCain. I do think that many of Hillary's supporters will jump over to McCain. Not all but many.

If you have noticed I have not really endorsed McCain. He is too far left for me, but compared to Obama, McCain is much more conservative. Frankly, Hillary was the most conservative of the three and although I loathe her, she probably would have been the best choice from a purely intellectual and experience vantage.

If you look at the electoral college states, (I am conceding the popular vote to Obama by a huge margin), I dont think Obama wins Florida. I think Hillary would have easily taken Florida. I think Michigan is now in play for the GOP and their 17 EC votes. I think McCain has a strong chance in New Hampshire which had gone blue in the last election. Texas would have been in play if Hillary had won but Obama wont win Texas. Plus there is an outside chance the McCain can win Pennsylvania. Depending on who McCain picks as his VP, Massachusetts might be in play if he picks Romney. And as of right now, I am not giving Obama Ohio. So if you add up all of the swing states, I definitely thought Hillary had a better chance than Obama in those.

It should be interesting. As you know at one time I honestly was backing Obama and his goal of bringing the country together. But throughout the last year, he has not proposed one olive branch to the right. He has always surrounded himself with long time "friends" and associates who are filled with bitterness and hate. One or two short term acquaintences I could understand but the list continues to grow.

geek_guy said...

RM,

Wrong again, big surprise.
According to several counts including real clear politics, she actually won the popular vote

Hmmm, according to , Obama won popular vote. The only exception is if you include MI (which Obama and Clinton and the DNC agreed earlier that their vote wouldn't count) and exclude the caucus states.

The supers did follow the will of the people, not Clinton's select list of people....

Clinton overwhelmingly won the swing states that are so important in the general

According to real politics, Obama would have won 4 of the 7 states against McCain while Clinton would have won only 3 (don't know the delegate count).

McCain. He is too far left for me, but compared to Obama, McCain is much more conservative.
McSame voted with Bush 97% this year and 100% last year.

Frankly, Hillary was the most conservative of the three
Except for the war (yes, it's a big issue) Obama's and Hillery's vote record are very similar.

I think Michigan is now in play for the GOP and their 17 EC votes.

According to real politics, McCain would win by the same % no matter if it was Clinton or Obama.

FYI, 2 + 2 = 4

geek_guy said...

Dang it, I even previewed the post and it looked ok, sorry.

rickmonday said...

geek,

What 4 of 7 swing states were you referring to? The 2 big ones, Ohio and Florida show McCain losing to Clinton and yet beating Obama.

Regarding the will of the people, in my post I stated that you could argue the total vote both ways but if you dont want to disenfranchise the 600,000 or so voters in Michigan and include them then Hillary did have the vote of the will of the people. Of course I know that is not how the dems run their primaries but the fact remains that Hillary had more people vote for her than Obama.

Also regarding the electoral college, if you were to add all of Hillary's wins up vs. Obama, then she crushed him in electoral college votes. About a month ago she had a 279 to 180 lead on him.

Of course it doesnt matter now that Obama was given the nomination. I still predict if Hillary is not the VP then McCain wins; not by the total vote but by the electoral vote.

I will even make a bet with you. If Obama wins I will go to one of his speeches and get my picture taken there.

Dave said...

Polls this early, before Obama and McCain have gone head-to-head, mean absolutely nothing. Obama has been fielding attacks from all sides and now is set to take on McCain in a fair fight. I really don't think McCain stands much of a chance in that contest. He has no money, no charisma, and has the very, very unpopular Bush administration wrapped around his neck. I just don't see how he wins.

rickmonday said...

Dave,

I agree with you that Obama is more popular. The way McCain will win is by winning the electoral college votes. Go to wikipedia and look at the red v blue maps and then guess which red states Obama will win. Very few if any. Texas aint going for Obama, NC isnt going for Obama, etc.. As geek pointed out there are really only a handful of swing states and although it is early McCain is leading in the big ones, Ohio and Florida. Those 2 alone can push him over the top. I predict an overwhelmingly popular vote win for Obama and yet McCain will take the electoral college votes. Of course if Obama chooses Hillary as the VP then the dems will win in a slaughter.

geek_guy said...

What 4 of 7 swing states were you referring to? The 2 big ones, Ohio and Florida show McCain losing to Clinton and yet beating Obama.


I was referring to the list off real clear politics.

you dont want to disenfranchise the 600,000 or so voters in Michigan and include them then Hillary did have the vote of the will of the people.

Yes I do, Michigen and Hillery agreed that their votes won't count, butt she changed her mind. She also wants to 'disenfranchise' all the caucus states that followed the rules.

the fact remains that Hillary had more people vote for her than Obama.

Show your math... or shut up.

Also regarding the electoral college, if you were to add all of Hillary's wins up vs. Obama, then she crushed him in electoral college votes. About a month ago she had a 279 to 180 lead on him.


Because nobody that voted for Hillary will vote for Obama, show your math.

Of course it doesnt matter now that Obama was given the nomination.

Given?!? WTF!! He earned it and he didn't even have to change the rules half way thru.

And this crap is spewed from a guy who claimed to be an Obama supporter.

I predict an overwhelmingly popular vote win for Obama and yet McCain will take the electoral college votes.

Obama 280 - McSame 258. looking for more charts.

geek_guy said...

http://www.electionprojection.com/president08.shtml

McSame 245 EC 47% pop
Obama 293 EC 51% pop

rickmonday said...

Jeez Geek,

Who peed in your cheerios this morning? Lighten up, you are sounding a little bitter these days.

Again, more people voted for Clinton than did Obama. Period.

Clinton 17,822,145 to 17,535,458 for the Golden Boy

rickmonday said...

But thanks for the other election chart site. :)

geek_guy said...

And those are the numbers with Michigan, Obama was not on the ballet. And for the last time, HILLARY, OBAMA, MICHIGAN, AND THE DNC ALL AGREED THAT MICHIGAN VOTES WILL NOT COUNT!!!

And those numbers did not include the caucus states that voted according to the rules!

For the states that followed the rules:
Obama 17,869,542 and 17,717,698 to the flip-flopping bitch. Period

JeromeProphet said...

Popular vote doesn't matter one iota. This is not the national election. Time for Hillary to go now. If Obama wants to pick her as his running mate, she carries a lot of baggage.

Some people can't stand her.

Then again, she has powerful connections, lots of money, means of getting more, lots of campaign experience, an already devoted staff and backers across the country - and millions of women voters who might want to see a woman as Vice President.

Then again - lots of people hate her - said that already - but it's important.

Dave said...

Only using the most extraordinarily selective and conditional (i.e. bullshit) math did Hillary come even close to winning the popular vote. RM has Karl Rove's special math skills utilized so effectively in 2006. But as JP says, the popular vote is meaningless in a primary anyway.

rickmonday said...

You guys crack me up. True Michigan's delegates didnt count so the popular vote should not even be in play. But dont discount the math of those who did vote.

I agree Obama won the most pledged delegates. But many of the Supers stated that they would vote the will of the people. Of course they have the right to change their mind and vote for Obama or Clinton for any reason they want. But the FACT remains that more people voted for Clinton. Period. No fuzzy math involved.

I watched Recount last night and I didnt think it was as one sided as the press has made it out to be. Spacey's charactor kept taughting how important it was to have every vote count. It seems that the dems have the luxury of cherry picking when they want every vote to count. In this case, they only wanted Obama votes to count.

geek_guy said...

True Michigan's delegates didnt count so the popular vote should not even be in play.
Correct, popular vote should not count anywhere, just delegates. Since Michigan delegates don't count and Obama wasn't on the ticket their popular should be in any totalling of the worthless "popular vote" game you insist on playing.

But dont discount the math of those who did vote.
Since Obama was not on the ballot, there can be no measure or math of the way people voted. If you want to give Obama the "uncommited" vote there, then Obama won your "popular vote" game.

But many of the Supers stated that they would vote the will of the people.
Since Obama was not on the Michigan ballot, how can you determine the "will of the people", asswipe?

It seems that the dems have the luxury of cherry picking when they want every vote to count.
And Hillary didn't want the votes counted of the caucus states, so much for the "will of the people", asswipe.

Actually, now that I think about it, since I am constantly having to clean up the mess after all the shit you spew, my handle should be asswipe.

rickmonday said...

geek,

You are such a classy guy.

Whose fault is it that Obama wasnt on the ticket? His. If he was so stupid not to put his name on the ballot, tough luck. My name wasnt on the ballot, can I claim them too.

geek_guy said...

It's not my fault you are so stupid that you can't understand that Obama, Hillary, Michigan, and the DNC all agreed the Michigan vote would not count be it delegate count or your popular vote game count.

The horse is dead, quit beating on it.